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Old Jan 12, 2008, 06:48 PM // 18:48   #1341
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Originally Posted by Kayu Ishida
What was supposed to be a simple solution to an alleged problem has now evolved into something much more sever. For over the past 24 hours I’ve been hearing near to nothing, save hate and garbage, being spewed all across this thread, and any sort of light that is shone upon the masses has been beaten down by ignorance and insults. Enough is enough, and this is all I can take before exploding into a wave of frustration, disappointment, and utter distress.

Seams like there is 4 types of people here. First, our moderators. Second, the Anet developers. Thirds, people that want an explanation and justice. Fourth, people that just want to flame and troll those seeking answers and justice.

I cannot stress enough how ludicrous it is to think that all the infamous 117 are greedy, evil, unforgivable hackers whose sole purpose was to exploit a programming error until all their selfish needs were satisfied while all other members of the Guild Wars gaming community were abandoned in the depths of an economic crash. Does that description sound over exaggerated and harsh? Well, anyone who knows the truth will be forced to agree on the fact that it is an inaccurate perception of the real situation, a situation that only Arena Net and the 117 know the truth behind. I ask you, why are the 117 being accused of such atrocities when there was never any hard, solid proof presented to the public that they were really guilty of the crimes they supposedly committed?

More bad publicity perhaps?

A veil of imprecision shrouds the definitions of “exploiting” and “cheating”, and now should we add “hacking”? I have had the honor of personally knowing a handful of the 117, and I will not be the first to admit that they are not hackers. In fact, they are so far from hackers, one of them can’t even set up Outlook. Does that sound like a hacker to you? None of them know what .dat files are. Are they still hackers? It is despicable when someone is wrongfully accused of being something they are not, and then the majority of the community exiles the accused and kicks them when they are down and stone then until they bleed. When did we all become liable judges? What justification exists that gives us the right to insult and spell out the fate of the defendants?

Everyone is losing out here. However it does shake Anet's foundation of trust. It also shows that they are a company that is unwilling to admit mistakes or show compassion to any involved, including testers.

The definite lines between justice and discrimination are now blurred. Who is wrong? Who is right? The people that are not members of the two parties will never know the real truth, so let’s stop fooling each other. Arena Net is not telling the truth, and the 117 are not telling the truth… so where will this arguing get us?

Probably nowhere. However, Anet developers are reading this. So if they are willing to ignore support tickets, then maybe they wont ignore this. You cant honestly say they give careful consideration and extensive research to act appropriately when it takes them 5 minutes to respond. In addition, send the exact same message to everyone that sent in a support ticket. A copy and paste message off of their FAQ.

The greatest lose that every single one of us will suffer from is trust. Those who were banned will never trust Arena Net again. Those who befriended the 117 will never trust Arena Net again. Those who felt they were cheated by the 117 will never trust the players Arena Net shuns from Guild Wars again. Those who stumble across future glitches will never feel comfortable reporting the instance, because can you truly invest a full amount of trust in the fact that you won’t be banned for accidently exploiting a glitch? Will you ever trust someone who says to you “Let’s go farm so-and-so! There’s an easy way to do it” without fearing you’re exploiting the game? Where does your trust waver now, or better yet has your trust in anything even faltered? If not, then leave the emotions to those who have felt the impact behind the bans.

I don't expect those that were banned, nor those that support those banned, will invest in any further Anet products. Further, it does instill a doubt in the rest of the community. Is Anet acting justly?

I am sorry, Miss Grey, that you were the messenger who was selected to be the bearer of bad news. Being the face of Arena Net, your task was to retell the story the developers and the suits instructed you to relate to the public. I hope you will be able to sleep at night knowing that it’s your job to say what you are supposed to say, while knowing the truth is behind closed doors. No one will believe my friends because of the label you and your co-workers have placed on them. The perfect word was already used to describe the feeling that your accusations have wrought: demoralizing. It really is the perfect word, agreed?

Truely demoralizing. I have lost sleep, study time and friends over this. When I received an Error45, I just wanted to vomit. Even more so, I have lost a product I love and am emphatically addicted to.. Guild Wars.

I’ve grown tired of all of this. I want my friends back. I want them to have their dignity back. What right do you have to deny them of that? So you think they cheated you in a game? Big deal. Their reputation is ruined because of this nonsense, and that is much harder to fix than an imagined economy. My friends have been nothing but kind, helpful, and generous to countless gamers, and this is how they are repaid? Would you like to know a fact, a truth behind the handful of the 117 I know? They are great friends and have shown great amounts of character in this dark and unjust situation. That is more than I can say about several of the people who have posted here. Be ashamed, be very ashamed that you can judge people you don’t know and feel completely comfortable with yourselves...

Now I am ashamed of myself for ranting when I am completely tired and not in the best state of mind. Most sorry to those who has nothing to do with my peeves, and to all gamers out there, good luck to you.
Well said. It summarizes some real issues going on here.. between the constant trolling and flaming.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52   #1342
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I've only read around 10% of the thread but I can already say that this thread is EPIC. It's the worst fail and the best qualities at the same time, with banned people both in the game and in the forum on the one end, Gaile and a few others who understood the situation right on the other end, and then in the middle the usual discussion where some try to understand and others give their opinion (which, funnily, I guess I'm part of).

It was strange (and good) to see someone say that his faith in Anet got restored because of the communication on this thread. Stop putting your feelings in the rollercoaster of fan forums. Think about it this way: between the OP and the 78th page, there's been only 30 hours!

There's absolutely no end to what people will do, hacking the gw.dat is perfectly normal (and totally against the EULA), discovering flaws is normal (all SW without exception have bugs unless they're formally developped), but the most important in all this affair is ethical hacking. The guy that found the hack is a great reverse engineer who probably worked hard to find this (we need more of these guys to make sure that GW's bugs are found and fixed), but he failed when he opened the door to the exploit (volontarily or not). Some doors should be closed as soon as opened, and this was one.

GG Anet.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53   #1343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop of Fear
good morning dear.
Hack or not, u kept it secret for months to exploit it as much as u could knowing it was a critical exploit.
Play with words as u like, post as many pages of rants u believe is appropriate, honest players will keep thanking anet for their effort to protect the game they love from greedy people who exploit it in every possible way they can.

Rant some more, then turn off your monitor, clean your brain from all the crap and ask youself " did i deserve it ?"
If the answer is "yes" then stop posting crap here and either get another copy of gw and play honestly or leave the game.
If the answer is "no" then accept that a.net has the rights to take all the actions to protect their gaming environment.
It is a sad thing. I have only known about it for 1 week. I have been banned for something done for less then 24hrs.. versus the rest of 6500hrs (7hrs a DAY for the last 30 months) of legit playtime.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02   #1344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
Eventually, if Anet is honest they will admit there was nothing more sinister than a ferry used to farm Mallyx. They have been told step by step how to do it .. sadly there was VERY FEW steps to setup a ferry. No hacking no sinister plots .. just a ferry. The 117 were just tacked to the cross when the exact same type of ferry (duncan zone anywhere etc) was never a bannable offense .. till now.
Even if it wasn't hacking, which I don't entirely believe considering that Anet was unable to reproduce it, it was still an exploit. It was certainly not the same as other ferries, given that it involved a hidden dev outpost. This should have been obvious to most people, including yourself. I don't think you can plead ignorance with a straight face when you have 4000+ hours played. Now, you could have covered your ass by posting it on the forums earlier, but greed got the better of you and you decided to keep it hidden - bad plan. Now you're stuck with the consequences. I'm sorry that you lost something important to you, but there is no one to blame but yourself here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
Many of us would just like the truth to be told.
Quite frankly, I'm vastly more likely to believe Anet than anything said by the banned people. There's 40 ever-changing stories in this thread by the banned people, and one story by Anet that really hasn't been proven wrong. Who would you trust?
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02   #1345
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Eventually, if Anet is honest they will admit there was nothing more sinister than a ferry used to farm Mallyx. They have been told step by step how to do it .. sadly there was VERY FEW steps to setup a ferry. No hacking no sinister plots .. just a ferry. The 117 were just tacked to the cross when the exact same type of ferry (duncan zone anywhere etc) was never a bannable offense .. till now.

Those posting their opinion when it is uninformed .. please consider keeping it till this is resolved. Anet closes the tickets sent to support on this topic which leaves us limited options for contacting them. Your flames and random post fluffing are not helping the situation. Will we be unbanned? Most likely not. Many of us would just like the truth to be told.
*sigh*
This is a discussion forum.
This is not the Devs only source of information about the exploit.
ANet is gathering their information..or have gathered the information that is needed to explore this breach of the game.
Please refrain from telling members of this Forum to stop expressing their own opinions. That is what a forum is for.
Believe me...the mods delete and ban the more creative flammers.
If you require MORE answers from ANet, and NCsoft....print off the response they had sent you?
If you are 'waiting' for them to review your logs 'more'....stop coming here and telling all these forum posters they are uninformed.
ALOT of the information provided here came from the 117 banned ...and their 'friends'.
Peace.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04   #1346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
It's more a lose-lose situation, actually: They can either let the bots go unbanned and acquire large sums of gold, or ban the account and suspend their actions momentarily.

Also, a large amount of bots come from stolen accounts. Whether it's "large amount" or "majority" I don't remember.
A large amount of bots come from the free trial accounts Anet gives away periodically. Including those in game goldsite farmers. You know "go to www.example.com.. 100k = 10 bucks, ect."
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:05 PM // 19:05   #1347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ithqua
You will be surprised there are some that didnt know it was a bug, i was 1 of them.. believe it or not..its not like that area Says This is a bug area please leave -.-.. if it says that every1 will leave
It said "Ebony Citadel of Mallyx - Elite Mission" No different then mapping into Urgoz or Deep.. same message.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09   #1348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop of Fear
funny to see how a damn high % of the people banned are from house zu heltzer and cavalon holding alliance.
i would have never expected that
Bigger alliance = more people, more talking, more information spreading.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:10 PM // 19:10   #1349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clait
A large amount of bots come from the free trial accounts Anet gives away periodically. Including those in game goldsite farmers. You know "go to www.example.com.. 100k = 10 bucks, ect."
How do you sell money when you can't trade on a trial account? Unless I'm mistaken?
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12   #1350
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Quote:
posted by Clait
It is a sad thing. I have only known about it for 1 week. I have been banned for something done for less then 24hrs.. versus the rest of 6500hrs (7hrs a DAY for the last 30 months) of legit playtime.
Please read the word Accomplice in wiki and contemplate the meaning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accomplice


So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, goodbye
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:13 PM // 19:13   #1351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clait
It is a sad thing. I have only known about it for 1 week. I have been banned for something done for less then 24hrs.. versus the rest of 6500hrs (7hrs a DAY for the last 30 months) of legit playtime.
So they should only ban you if you cheat/exploit their game for long periods of time? I really don't even know how to respond to this crap. It's like someone saying they havn't done anything their whole life then commits a crime and expects to walk without any consequences. You all chose to exploit this and now you pay the price.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:14 PM // 19:14   #1352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Entirely true. People can disagree with it, sure, but it's kinda hard to do when they've already clicked the "I Agree" button. I guess read before you leap.
Well clicking the 'I Agree' already means you clicked the 'I Will Not Disagree' button, therefore they lied...

I myself am glad this is being sorted out, and i hope this is a lesson to not only the people who deliberately used the exploit, but ANet aswell for not completely getting rid of the hidden outpost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ithqua
You will be surprised there are some that didnt know it was a bug, i was 1 of them.. believe it or not..its not like that area Says This is a bug area please leave -.-.. if it says that every1 will leave
How CAN'T you know this area was more of an exploit?
The time that NF has been out, i think it was more on the obvious side.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15   #1353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clait
A large amount of bots come from the free trial accounts Anet gives away periodically. Including those in game goldsite farmers. You know "go to www.example.com.. 100k = 10 bucks, ect."
That is not true. Trial accounts are not allowed to trade items or money with other players or drop items on the ground in explorable areas (to be picked up my other players). This is done to delibrately prevent what you are talking about.

Now... the spam bots that advertise MIGHT be trial accounts... but not the actual farm bots themselves since they have no way of moving money off their characters.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:16 PM // 19:16   #1354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora's box
The DoA mission requires talent, skill, and dedication

The DoA mission is too long and Arenanet knows that. After 2 hours of playing we get the advice to take a break. How many people doing the DoA mission take a break? Personally I never did this mission. Why? Because I need to enter a party with real players so I can't go afk for a while.


Hacking an online game is a bad idea and its ok that hackers get banned. Yet Arenanet should consider the reason for this: the length of the mission. If they advice to take a break after 2 hours than isn't it logical to make sure all missions can be done within that amount of time?
If DoA is too long, then you could argue that the whole of UW and FoW must be as well.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:16 PM // 19:16   #1355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Even if it wasn't hacking, which I don't entirely believe considering that Anet was unable to reproduce it, it still was an exploit. It was certainly not the same as other ferries given that it involved a hidden dev outpost. This should have been obvious to most people, including yourself. I don't think you can plead ignorance with a straight face when you have 4000+ hours played. Now, you could have covered your ass by posting it on the forums earlier, but greed got the better of you and you decided to keep it hidden - bad plan. Now you're stuck with the consequences. I'm sorry that you lost something important to you, but there is no one to blame but yourself here.



Quite frankly, I'm vastly more likely to believe Anet than anything said by the banned people. There's 40 ever-changing stories in this thread by the banned people, and one story by Anet that really hasn't been proven wrong. Who would you trust?
Uh no. It wasn't any different than any other ferry. Speaking as one that used it .. shhh you don't know what you are talking about. The outpost was not hidden .. anyone that went into Mallyx and typed resign would return to it. Not too hidden. If said outpost was meant for testing only .. why did they bother actually building a graphic for it? Why was it named Mallyx's Ebony Citadel (hint: a dev only outpost wouldn't need a name)? Why was there an enter mission button? You Sir cannot answer these questions. So please as I asked in my post .. consider holding your opinion till Anet has time to address this. Gaile was misinformed and I do not hold her accountable for the misinformation. However, would be nice if they corrected what has been said.

I had over 9000 hours thank you. Greed was never an issue I had stacks of legitimate ecto in storage that had been there for YEARS. The personal attacks by uninformed people really need to stop. This ferry was no different than the MANY other ferrys that people were NEVER banned for. Not one of the 117 would have even considered doing this if they thought it was a bannable offense .. that is just common sense.

Again, I ask the people fanning the flames to allow those of us directly involved a chance to communicate with Anet.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17   #1356
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Well, you knew it was wrong, you did it anyways, and now you are asking to come back? If I was Anet, i'd ban your IP entirely, looks like you have it light.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:18 PM // 19:18   #1357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
Eventually, if Anet is honest they will admit there was nothing more sinister than a ferry used to farm Mallyx. They have been told step by step how to do it .. sadly there was VERY FEW steps to setup a ferry. No hacking no sinister plots .. just a ferry. The 117 were just tacked to the cross when the exact same type of ferry (duncan zone anywhere etc) was never a bannable offense .. till now.

Those posting their opinion when it is uninformed .. please consider keeping it till this is resolved. Anet closes the tickets sent to support on this topic which leaves us limited options for contacting them. Your flames and random post fluffing are not helping the situation. Will we be unbanned? Most likely not. Many of us would just like the truth to be told.
A ferry to a hidden outpost... come on!! You've been around long enough, you should've known better. No NPC's... mostly empty, not mentioned on Wiki... all you had to do is put 2 and 2 together.

This a thread opened to post opinions. As it moves along we become more and more informed. If my choice is believing what Gaile says the guys looking into this came up with and what some posters here have ranted about and caught lying about.... I'll stick with Gaile and co.

I am sadden you are one of them. I read a few pages back you were trying to reach Gaile but her PM box is full. If you didn't use this exploit a bunch of times, I wish you good luck getting things cleared up. She posted an email that goes directly to her....
EMail Link to Gaile
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:21 PM // 19:21   #1358
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is there any screenies of this outpost? i'd love to see it. just to see whats in a uberness anet only area.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26   #1359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
Uh no. It wasn't any different than any other ferry. Speaking as one that used it .. shhh you don't know what you are talking about. The outpost was not hidden .. anyone that went into Mallyx and typed resign would return to it. Not too hidden. If said outpost was meant for testing only .. why did they bother actually building a graphic for it? Why was it named Mallyx's Ebony Citadel (hint: a dev only outpost wouldn't need a name)? Why was there an enter mission button? You Sir cannot answer these questions. So please as I asked in my post .. consider holding your opinion till Anet has time to address this. Gaile was misinformed and I do not hold her accountable for the misinformation. However, would be nice if they corrected what has been said.

I had over 9000 hours thank you. Greed was never an issue I had stacks of legitimate ecto in storage that had been there for YEARS. The personal attacks by uninformed people really need to stop. This ferry was no different than the MANY other ferrys that people were NEVER banned for. Not one of the 117 would have even considered doing this if they thought it was a bannable offense .. that is just common sense.

Again, I ask the people fanning the flames to allow those of us directly involved a chance to communicate with Anet.
Well, first of all, all of those questions can be answered. They made a graphic so they could see what they were testing. When you have several thousand files, its nice to have a name for something, and more descriptive names are better. There was an enter mission button so they could actually get somewhere to do tests? It's useless testing in an outpost or town.

These are all very obvious answers, and I support anet giving you a ban. And as gaile said, the number of people, 117, is a very small number compared to the population of the rest of the game. Since the people taking advantage of this would have crashed the economy, Anet's quick response has probably saved the game. Although to you it may seem selfish, but banning 117 players so a couple hundred thousand can enjoy their game to the full sounds fair to me, how about you?
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:29 PM // 19:29   #1360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
Uh no. It wasn't any different than any other ferry. Speaking as one that used it .. shhh you don't know what you are talking about. The outpost was not hidden .. anyone that went into Mallyx and typed resign would return to it. Not too hidden. If said outpost was meant for testing only .. why did they bother actually building a graphic for it? Why was it named Mallyx's Ebony Citadel (hint: a dev only outpost wouldn't need a name)? Why was there an enter mission button? You Sir cannot answer these questions. So please as I asked in my post .. consider holding your opinion till Anet has time to address this. Gaile was misinformed and I do not hold her accountable for the misinformation. However, would be nice if they corrected what has been said.

I had over 9000 hours thank you. Greed was never an issue I had stacks of legitimate ecto in storage that had been there for YEARS. The personal attacks by uninformed people really need to stop. This ferry was no different than the MANY other ferrys that people were NEVER banned for. Not one of the 117 would have even considered doing this if they thought it was a bannable offense. that is just common sense.

Again, I ask the people fanning the flames to allow those of us directly involved a chance to communicate with Anet.
yeah, i didn't assume it'd be bannable.. it was just an outpost.. why would anything instantly assume it was an ill-obtained outpost if it exists even with an "enter mission" button.

it didnt show on map.. neither do urgoz or deep

i'm wondering why, for 6 months, did this admin-only outpost allow access to, and not draw attention from; random people zoning into, and out of it. i meen it was an admin-testing-outpost only.. yet for 6 months they didnt notice anything going on in their own test outpost.. with all of their logs and people reporting it..

Last edited by ArkonOfTheStorm; Jan 12, 2008 at 07:32 PM // 19:32..
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